The software should have a mode that shows you data in real time, similar to a traditional oscilloscope.
Real-time is here! Ok you got me, finally time to order one for myself. I believe that this feature alone is going to make this absolutely the best USB-based logic analyzer on the market.
For those that do not know this feature have finally been added, its still beta but at least progress has been made.
Bought a Logic Pro 16 last week. Nice and solid design, software looks good and user friendly... But at the first short test of it I saw that there is no realtime view?!
When I bought the Logic Pro this feature was such a basic expectation that it never came to my mind that the Logic wouldn't have it, unbelievible.
Now I read the comments of all the people here and see the high number of votes for such a feature. Please Saleae team, make this feature available asap, it's essential for a lot of people. It dont have to be perfect from the beginning, but it should be available.
We have a scripting API that customers can use to automate starting captures over and over. This has some utility, especially if you just need to see if anything is happening on the signals, but implementing a scope-like real time view is what we really want to accomplish.
Separately, I'd like to add support for just showing a summary of the current input states (digital high / low / toggling, analog voltage), by adding new functionality to the devices via a firmware update.
@azy.development, agreed - we're planning on using a fixed memory buffer rather than try and handle the case where the system runs out of RAM.
Agreed with the desire for this. I was surprised it wasn't in here since it would hugely increase the value of the tool in many situations.
I think someone mentioned it below but I agree that a good user experience would be to set a cap of memory that the circular buffer can use and then rotate around that.
This is sort of confusing from a software developer mind? It is easy enough to use the windows SDK to find the scanning window and upon close find an click the start button. This is good enough for must of us, we just want a simple loop?
Adding that should not even be a question of how but rather a question of when. I'm not here to tell anyone how to run there agenda but maybe create this basic idea for now? Just something we can use to monitor the state of a wire. Get it done, push it up to the latest code and improve on it when you can.
I just bought a logic 8 trusting on Saleae's name thinking it will have more than I need and more and better than my poor Hantek 6022, but even with a buggy software it has real time view.
Surprised and dissapointed.
It's a feature so obvious that you don't verify it.
People is waiting for so long that if it's going to be so hard/long to implement in a good way... find a way so people can work on the mean time with it even if it's not perfect: slow refresh, API hability to export RT data, plugins, open source usb protocol...
This is important as and in itself but I think it's even more important for what it can enable. One of the most useful feature normally available is an envelope function. This enables you not only to verify the timing of events but also the range and jitter.
For instance with envelope mode (particularly if you go the extra step and add persistence) you can measure a particular event and see at a glance that
- it takes 10 to 20 ms
- The amount of time can be 10, 15 or 20 ms
- There is a 1 ms jitter on the time
Yes this IS a big deal.
I'd gain 80% of the utility with even a 10Hz or less update... just let me see what state the signals are in during a wait for a trigger.
Hi Stephen, sorry about this! Unfortunately, it's actually a huge undertaking, and part of the reason we're hiring for software architecture. It definitely is possible, but due to the way the hardware and existing software is designed, it's proved extremely difficult. If this is a deal breaker for you, let us know. If you bought the product from us, we offer a 180 day return policy. If you bought the unit some place else, we can help out if it's out of the return policy too. Let us know if you have any questions.
I just bought the Pro 8 and was surprised to find out there is no real time mode. I can't imagine this would too hard to implement.
Instead of having a full speed real-time view; I think it would be useful and probably easier to integrate a "rolling view" which updates at < 1 MHz and/or a simple dashboard that shows you all your channels if they are high, low, or switching (Example: Pin activity on page 25 - http://cdn.teledynelecroy.com/files/manuals/logicstudio_gsm.pdf). These are the kind of features I can find on a high-end analyzer that I think are most useful.
Thanks ElecticEthan! Yes, we have thought about it, a lot. I think the correct solution is to have a much more plugin-friendly application. Ideally, we would architect the software in such a way that just about every user facing feature was actually a plugin - some of which would be closed source to protect IP, but some would be open source, for 3rd party modification. On top of that, by forcing most of the user facing features to adhere to a plugin system, it would allow us to make the software more extensible than ever before. It's a hard problem to solve though. We're working on hiring a software architect to work on it right now - there are more details on the blog.
Ultimately I believe that we have to keep the core of the software closed source, as it's the main part of our IP.
I'd like to share a quick reply:
First of all: thank you sooo much for those replies and blog posts Mark and Joe!
"As engineers, we tend to be wildly optimistic about what can be accomplished in short order. Perhaps you can relate"
Yes, all too well. ;-O
I think the frustration factor was mostly centered around the communication / lack of feedback. I personally can understand all too well how this could have occurred without the notifications.
"We can only say that we will do the best we can, make the best decisions we can at each point, and work towards making the best product we know how to make."
I have no doubts about this. And there already is a beautiful product with gorgeous hardware as a foundation.
Just a quick thought: have you ever considered opening up / open sourcing more of the software section?
I say this completely ignoring other aspects like the all important business side of things, I'm aware of this,
But I bet there are plenty of very capable people who'd love to assist building cool things on that hardware platform that Saleae has when they're not developing iPhone's or Tesla's.. ;-)
But no matter what:
All your replies, efforts and time is very much appreciated! Please realize that above all other things. :-)
I'm terribly sorry we haven't been monitoring the comments here. We've just setup notifications so comments here will be handled at the same level we handle technical support. I'm also terribly sorry for our response (or lack of one) to this feature particularly, which I know we've been talking both publicly and with individual Logic users for quite some time. Joe has written up a detailed article about this - please read it here: http://blog.saleae.com/real-time-view-and-other-delays/
Also, we need to do a better job setting and managing expectations with this feature and other feature suggestions. We've written up another article on that, which we've linked to from the home page of ideas.saleae.com, and you can find that here: http://blog.saleae.com/software-feature-development-expectations/
Thanks and kind regards,
I got my Logic 8 last week and found out, that no real time view is possible. :-(
When do you plan to realize this?
I gave 3 votes...
An extremely low bandwidth "High/Low" "Red/Green" type status while idle (not triggered) would be extremely helpful.
Sometimes you just need to know the status at a given moment in snail-time.
Not sure what additional feedback you are waiting for here - same comment about the fact that it's apparently been planned for well over two years. We've bought three Logic Pro 16s (which work fine for the things that they do), and will not be buying any more until/unless there's a basic continuous scope mode that at least can replace a basic scope (i.e. don't try to do everything, but do something).
Guess it's time to switch to Bitscope :(
Please make this happen. Was disappointed when I found that this wasn't available.
I just created an account to vote and to say that this is the one feature that I really, really, really would like to see.
The products are absolutely great, but this really sticks out as a missing feature. It's actually holding me back from ordering more products..
when do you think will this fine feature be available.
Just bought my unit. Disappointed as well that this has been planned for two years and hasn't been released yet. I get that this represents a pretty large software development investment, but there are a lot of problems where viewing a triggered waveform in realtime can provide valuable insights.
Your hardware is easily the most compact and robust looking out there, and your software makes me feel like I have a product from this millennium, so you've got a great thing going so far.
Please add this feature!
any news on this?
So this suggestion is the highest voted of all suggestions. Any reason why this is still sitting on the back burner as we, the customers, are ignored? The "customer" obviously feels this is an important issue, with no updates in over 2 years this is just bad business. How this feature was overlooked in the initial design is astonishing to me.
No need to ask anymore. Nobody will bother to answer us about this feature :)
I just started using my Logic PRO16 and was quite surprised/disappointed to see that it does not support real-time signal view.
when will this feature be availabe?
Any update? It's now closing in on 2 years since this was marked as Planned. This is the most requested feature of all!
I purchased in hope of having real time view. I want to use the Logic 8 as 8 input DC volt meter. In fact I don't need to see a waveform at all, just 0v and 5v.
Any news on this feature. I purchased this unit because I need a real time view as I debug circuits.
Personally I don't even care about a waveform view, you can always turn off triggers and just run a capture of however long you want (not real-time I understand, but it's always done the trick for me). What I'd like to see is a simple "0/1" character in each channel's "header" (where the channel number, name and trigger options live) in the main window so you could simply sight down the window and see the current status of each channel, it really wouldn't take any space to do this in the existing UI. Ideally it wouldn't take an extra window or special mode or anything like that, and the polling rate could be fairly slow (60Hz or less) since it would just be a visual update. Ideally this would still function even while a capture is running so you could easily see if signals are transitioning or not. Analog channels could perhaps display the current voltage reading if that doesn't take too much space to fit in the header.
I also would like an update. It's now been almost 1.5yrs since this was listed as PLANNED. I think an update would be very appropriate. I too thought this was a feature already available when I purchased my Logic Pro 16. At the moment, I use my Tektronix MSO more often than my Saleae as the real-time view is much more useful.
I as well would really like to see this feature implemented, I had assumed it was possible and it was very disappointing after the box showed up on my door this functionality was not there. I probably will not be able to use this product as much as I expected now. Can we get an expectation on when the update will be released? Where is this feature at on the road map?
Please post a status on this. Even if this has not been started, it would be nice to have a status stating this has been pushed out to another future version, or beyond current capability. With this many votes, it's not going to be forgotten and does not look good without status updates for a year or more.
Any news after more than one year? :)
Is there a new status on this task?
I am a next person who is looking forward to real-time view of analog.
When is this planned to change from "planned" to "started"?
Along with the oscilloscope functionality - can we add an "overlay" where overlapping waves on probe 1 and probe 2 highlight where the timing issues maybe?
Would it be possible to show two (maybe up to four) waves overlapped on one combined channel?
Another vote in favor of this. Right now, we have two "standard" models of logic analyzer in use: A Saleae model and another brand. So half our engineers get a Saleae and the other half get the other model. This is specifically because Saleae lacks a live view mode. Essentially, if you implement this, we would buy twice as many logic analyzers from Saleae!
ok I just added 2 votes to get this to 600. New products shipped months ago, surely there's some progress on this by now.
Are there any updates on the subj?
This feature is really a must have, and it'd be great to have updates on its implementation, and maybe "unofficial" alpha that features it?
This feature would be enormously helpful. Not sure how you even sold an analog product without this mode. Any idea when we can expect it?
Well? No updates since 9 months for a so voted feature!? This is quite disappointing.
I should have checked for this before I bought this product :(
I had assumed that with the analog inputs a scope-like operating mode would go without saying. As much as I love the logic analyzing features, half the time when working in the field I need a realtime output of what I'm probing. I hope this will be added soon, otherwise I might have to buy somthing like the Bitscope in addition (the hardware might be largely inferior, but the software is more complete). I would appreciate some feedback on when we can expect realtime. Thanks.
This feature is mandatory. It is enough if it is not strictly real time but the data has to be displayed without a trigger, this is necessary to know the status of the lines without searching for a valid trigger (sometimes could be difficult).
One way of implementing this I can see is using recorded frames. Record every trigger after the screen would be filled up, then save it as a frame that can be accessed as needed. Then only update the display to show the most up to date frame 60 times a second (since that's the only frequency practical for most monitors). For capturing glitches, with this method, one should be able to take many frames that should look similar or the same and overlap them on one screen. This seems like a method that would allow people using the software to still have data-logging capabilities to save when they see an intermittent glitch happen, while being able to view everything in real time.
I was looking to update form my logic16 to the latest designs now that it has analog channels. My biggest thing is real time, even if it is not at the highest frequency, is a must for me. I was wondering if there are any updates on the availability of this feature and what the limitations might be currently. CAN @ 500k is really the fastest thing I really deal with so, extreme speeds are not necessary.
Following are some use cases where real-time monitoring would be useful, and a suggestion about how to implement the real-time display, which I think would work well for both analog and digital channels.
Suppose I've set up the system to trigger on one channel. Perhaps I've already captured a trace, and I don't want to save it but I also don't want to wipe it out by viewing real-time data. But I do want to know the current state of all the channels - maybe because it's not triggering and I'm wondering why, or maybe because I want to check the state of all the channels to make sure they are all in a correct state before triggering a new event.
Here is a way to display real-time data that would not wipe out the last captured trace. Between the channel labels and the traces, insert a column about 2mm wide. In that column, for each channel, display a bar that shows the minimum and maximum value of the channel during the last .1 second time interval. For a digital channel, if the channel was low throughout the last time interval, then draw a short horizontal line at the same level as the low level of the corresponding trace. Similarly if the channel was high throughout the last time interval. If the channel transitioned during the last time interval, draw a vertical bar between the low and high levels. That would function similarly to a logic probe, i.e. you could tell by looking at the display if a signal was solid low, solid high, or pulsing.
With the new display of beta 1.1.23, I would suggest putting the min-max bars between the channel labels and the color bars, in order to separate the real-time display from the captured traces.
It will be interesting to see a Real Time Update feature. That can help in Real Time analysis. Was wondering the scan/update rate that we could have in such a system. Would it be in the range of 1-20ms or higher?
Just wanted to ask if this feature (which is super awesome, very useful even with lower sampling rates) be available for old https://www.saleae.com/logic (via firmware update) or only new devices?
Even for digital lines it would be great to show if it is high, low or toggling. If I can see the current state then I can set the trigger appropriately.
Also, this assumes level triggering on an analog channel, which I really hope is being included.
Something to keep in mind is that it doesn't actually have to be "real time." Anything over 50 FPS is indistinguishable. So you only have to display one data set every 20ms or so, while recording the rest of the data in the background if the user wants to record it. A good starting point would be something like Digilent's Waveforms software.
Love this new feature! Only one thing is missing. A "trig + center on screen feature".
i.e. when doing packet analysis, you want to zoom in on a "packet" and lock the view in the x-axis.this way you can see how indivudual bits change in real-time. Extremely useful! :-)
You won't be notified about changes to this idea.